Laser repair - Some questions

Hi -
I have what I believe to be a 1989 laser with a leaky mast step. When my son last sailed it I found some loose parts inside the hull that looked like part of the mast step ring. I've searched the forums and have gotten some good tips but still have some questions.

Now the questions;
The number on the transom is Z1 DD 5079 1 889. As I understand the code my hull number is 1,450,791 and it was built in 1989. There used to be a good post or article on hull numbers but I can no longer find it??

2nd question - what happened to all the good stuff that used to be on Drlaser.org??

I intend to put an inspection port in the deck to reach in and reinforce the bottom of the mast step. My planned placement id to have the edge of the hole 6” off the centerline and 8” away from the mast hole. Comments? Too close? Too far away?

What size hole do I cut for an inspection port - 6” ?

Can I easily get replacement floatation bags if I cut the old ones out to provide a better view? Is there another way to provide floatation??

Any problem if I put another port in the front of the cockpit next to the dagger board?? Will it be helpful in doing the repair?

Thanks
Andy Zangle

1- do a forum search, there's a website that can tell you.
2. the Dr. Laser site was taken off the web. I'm not sure why, but it no longer works.
3. The only thing I can say for that is make sure it's not near a reinforcing area, such as the center or sides. beyond that, it doesn't really matter.
4. just put the port where you want it and trace around it.
5. yes, they're available from a liscenced laser dealer, fairly cheaply.
6. an inspection port there is a bad place, because people tend to put their knees down there and break the port. as long as you're careful though, it doesn't matter that much.

computeroman2,
Thanks for the advice. I'll try searching the site again for the number decoding - I wasn't very successful the first time around.

I put a web cam in the hull and for the first couple of minutes thought that the step looked fine THEN I got a look around the starboard side and a piece of the donut was missing!!

I might be over thinking this but would it be helpful if I put in a piec of wood to replace the section of the donut that is missing??

Anyway, I will be busy next weekend so will probably not start until around 7/8 or so.

Thanks Again Andy

Hi,

Thanks for searching the previous posts. From what I see of that grainy pic, you have a kind of unique case. So, I'll add what I can.

Your foam, that surrounds the mast tube, seems to have "deflated" before it hardened. Thus, I'd guess, it isn't doing it's job well, that of filling the space between the hull donut, and the tube. I'll post a pic of an '05, that showns firm foam.

If part of this foam has fallen out (based on your mention of missing "donut") then i'd assume it's all kinda useless. I'd rap on it with a hammer or something, hoping it all falls out. Then I'd pour WEST in the resulting gap to make a solid, waterproof, filler/joint between the tube and the hull.

We all saw one boat that had deflated foam, from N. Europe if I remember correctly. I've seen a few where the foam was so fragile, that a couple of taps and it all fell out. Once it's gone, filling is easy and very strong. (Make sure it's dry! (but since you did search, I'm sure you heard me say that before, lol))

The only caution I'd add, is be positive that the tube holds water. If it doesn't you need to stop the leak, hopefully near 14" of depth. If you don't, the WEST filler that you pour between the tube and the hull step will creep into the tube, and might fill it to 13" or so, which is a problem.Pics attached:

The first is an '05 with nice foam.

The second is an 82, with foam removed, ready to fill. This might take 2 tries, as "the server is busy"

Try number 2, I think 2nd pic is attached. This one was cut open, to put a new tube in. That explains the square ring of white glass around the mast tube. But it shows how easy the fill job is, once all of the foam is gone.

After this, you might consider adding some glass to be sure the donut glassed to the hull will stay in place. That's a seperate question.

Al Russell 182797

Hey Andy,

I just did a mast step repair. Check out this thread if you haven't already. I've included some pics.

I used a 5" inspection port. It was plenty big enough to do all the work. Simply trace the inside of the portion of the part that you will mount in the hole. That will give you a guideline to cut on. I used a Dremel to cut the hole. It did a nice, fast neat job. I believe the the distance from the near edge of the mast step to the near edge of the inspection port is 10".

Hope this helps.

http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=4114

Senna27,
Your thread was one of the first good ones I came across. (I made a word doc of some useful threads as a reference guide.) Colie sails convinced my son to go with the 6" port. They were generally helpful as one of the sailors there had recently done this repair. I'll probably use a router and a circle jig to cut my hole as I have one from another hobby.

Al Russell,
Sorry for the quality of the picture. Iuse a webcam and tried to enhance it with Photoshop Elements but as you can see my skills need improvement. As soon as I put the port in, I will try to get the old donut out and follow your suggestions for waterproofing the step then filling and reinforcing the inside. I will probably use west with some kind of structural filler (403 404 ??). I will then put some glass strips around the step as described in other threads.



Again thanks for the help – I will keep everyone posted as I do

I would use plain old polyester resin rather than West System. West System is an epoxy resin, your laser was built with polyester. I am not an expert, but I don't believe two mix well.

Jimmy,
I've used WEST epoxy over polyester many times and not had a problem. Surface prpeparation (clean, dry, and rough) is the key in my mind.

Andy

Epoxy resin can be put over polyester resin but not the other way around. If you go to the west system site they address this question and explain why the epoxy is the preferred repair material for a poly boat....I use poly because it is cheaper and also I'm not racing the old beast anymore.

jimmy said:

I would use plain old polyester resin rather than West System. West System is an epoxy resin, your laser was built with polyester. I am not an expert, but I don't believe two mix well.

Click to expand...

Epoxy over poly is ok (can be a waste of money at times, unless you need some of epoxy's superior attributes)

poly over epoxy is a no-no

Thanks for clarifying.

So I cut the inspection port hole tonight and looked closely at the step. There seem to be three distinct parts down there: the mast step cylinder, a wood and glass step, and the foam donut. The mast step is a square piece of wood and glass attached to bottom of the hull. It seems to be in good shape. When I tap it with a screwdriver it is solid. The foam donut is missing its top part for 150 degrees on the front side. The mast step cylinder is missing the entire bottom! When I move the step the bottom stays put! It also looks like the mast step is designed to move up and down inside the donut as the deck flexes?? Is this true?? It will greatly complicate the repair!!

I’m now not sure how to proceed? I’m thinking that I need to make a waterproof bottom cap for the step and then replace the foam??

Thanks again for the help

Andy

Andyz said:

It also looks like the mast step is designed to move up and down inside the donut as the deck flexes?? Is this true?? It will greatly complicate the repair!!

I’m now not sure how to proceed? I’m thinking that I need to make a waterproof bottom cap for the step and then replace the foam??

Thanks again for the help

Andy

Click to expand...

No, the mast tube should be firmly attached to the plywood base - you want the I-beam effect here for stiffness in the hull and deck.

If it were me, I would start with replacing the donut - a nice peanut butter consistency of resin/thickening agent. I would apply this not only where the donut is missing, but also around the remaining pieces of donut if you choose not to remove them. You want this mixture thick so it does not fill up the mast tube. Once that is done, I would go after the mast tube base leak - some slightly thickened resin poured directly into the tube. You don't want to bring the depth up much less then 14"

Once that is done, I might apply a layer or two of mat around the tube/donut/step, especially if I had not removed the rest of the old donut filler...

49208,
That works. Knowing that the mast tube should be attached to the bottom of the hull makes the repair much easier. I have 14 5/16" from the deck to the bottom of the tube so I've got room to fill the bottom of the tube. I'm going to let it dry out for a while and probably do the repair on July 8th.

Thanks
Andy

I've mixed a test batch of WEST to make sure my hardner and resin is still good. The plan is to do the repair tomorrow. The one remaining good digital camera that my sons have not admitted to "borrowing" is missing so I will not be able to give you a visual blow by blow ala LooserLu.

I have some extra depth in the mast tube and the remaining donut seems to be fitmly attached.

My plan is to pour some west with just a little 404 into the bottom of the tube and let it setup for a while. (If I have any 420 aluminum I will use that instead.) That will seal the bottom of the mast and let me use a thick west 404 mixture around the remaining donut pieces and where the donut is missing. After that sets up, I will probably glass in som fiberglass strips.

I'll post as I finish.

Thanks again for the advice and continuing help.
Andy

In put a hair dryer inside my boat (on low) and pointed it at the base of the mast step to dry it out! Worked like a charm!

I fixed the boat last weekend. Thanks for all the help and advice.

I used a hair dryer in the inspection port hole I cut on and off for several hours. the mast step was quite warn and dry as a bone.

I proceeded as follows;
• Mixed a test batch of WEST epoxy to make sure it was still good.
• Took out all the loose pieces from the donut
• Sanded everything I could reach
• Vacuumed the dust
• Washed everything with acetone
• Mixed a batch of epoxy with slow hardener – added aluminum powder and poured into mast step until I had 14” inside the tube
• Let this set for about an hour.
• Mixed a batch and coated the outside of the mast step, floor and tube.
• Waited for this epoxy to become sticky
• Cut a 2” X 7” piece of cloth and laid it on the sticky epoxy and smoothed it around corners
• Covered the cloth with epoxy – just enough to wet it.
• Let this set for 30 to 45 minutes
• Mixed a 3 pump batch and added a lot of 404 to make it the consistency of peanut butter. I forced this mixture into space where the donut was missing and the space between donut and tube.
• Mixed and applied another 2 or 3? batches until I filled all voids and built up a fillet on top of the step. I switched to 1 pump of fast hardener at this point.

DONE!!!

Again
Thanks for the help and support

Andy

Sounds like you did a good job. Did you take any before & after pics? (Or did you forget to take the before pics, like me?... Duh)!

Post them if you've got them! One question though, why West and not just fiberglass resin and matt as that's what the boat was originally made from. Not criticizing you, just curious!

Thanks

I did not take any pics as I could not find the camera!!!

I used West for a few reasons:

My understanding is that epoxy has much better adhesive properties than polyester when you go over old fiberglass adhesion is key and the bond is mechanical.

West with its pump system and additives is very easy to use and flexible. At one end 404 is very strong but not easy to sand; at the other end 410 can be mixed to sand almost as easily as joint compound.

Finally, I’ve been a customer of West since 1976 when I had an old Thistle that needed a new rail - 2 inner and 2 outer curved pieces of wood that had to be precisely glued to the ¼” plywood hull. Meade Gougoen spent at least an hour on the phone with me going over every step with all kinds of tips and pointers.

Andy

Fair enough! Thanks...

Just as an FYI, the article on hull serial numbers can be found at http://wiki.laserforum.org/index.php?title=Serial_Number

Bradley said:

Just as an FYI, the article on hull serial numbers can be found at http://wiki.laserforum.org/index.php?title=Serial_Number

Click to expand...

Thanks... I wanted to check out my serial number, but I forget to write it down every time I go to the cottage... Maybe this weekend!!!